My daughter was the one in diapers, not hers. Her daughter is six. And if you are talking about me pulling your leg, that is not the case at all.

To answer your question Una, she did not know when to go since she was in diapers so long. During potty training she wore pull ups, and would get very frustrated if she had an accident, unlike a younger child who wouldn't normally care as much.

Ooops sorry frustrated mom....that other post should have been directed to Jackie, I can understand that happending with a 6 year old.

Frustrated Mom, as I mentioned, my daughter still to this day has accidents sometimes, so I wanted to keep her in protection still. However, I figured considering she decided it was time to get out of diapers, I didn't want to keep her in Pull Ups all the time. So, instead of regular underwear, she wears these:
http://www.bedwettingstore.com/briefs.htm

Looks like regular panties, and usually (except once or twice) holds everything.

I, new to this forum, have briefly read all of this and am stunned.
I thought this site was to offer advice & support for those who need it not to go brawling on.

My opinion, from someone who has a 4 year old wetting both day & night at present & soon is going to school, that it is either and attention problem or a medical one and should be addressed in either case. We have acceptable "norms" in this country and as a concerned parent I know I want to ensure my child is like everyone else.

To Frustrated Mum
It is possible to make an appointment to see the doctor for your daughter and to not take her. I have done this for my son. I explained the situation to the receptionist and it was fine. Then I made another appointment for child to see doctor. My friend has done this as well as it is not nice to talk over your child's head and it can be embarrassing for the child as you so rightly said. This is in the UK by the way. Also if your child does have a medical problem etc the school has to change nappies ... they don't like it ... but the school I am a Governor of, discovered this but this a long way down the line for you ... let's hope you won't get there. They won't do it unless it becomes a recognised problem for your daughter.

I am absolutely gobsmacked to read this topic and the numerous replies on this.

What on earth is going on here. I assumed that I had missed something and this young adult was mentally or physically disabled. If she does not have a medical reason for doing this then why are all the adults allowing it. And why are the majority or replies feeling sympathy for the mother? This is craziness and there seems to me to be nothing being done to either stop this child or point the mother in the right direction.

I am all for not making a thing about something in a first attempt to stop it happening but this is extreme.

This child had to be told firmly and strongly that she MUST NOT do this. It is not socially acceptable for a normal young lady to do this and in fact ceases to become normal at about three or four when most people take the child to the doctors. This mother must also realise that she MUST NOT continue to do what she is doing.

- It is not acceptable for her to change her daughter in a shopping mall!!! - there are sex offenders out there who would commit further crimes having seen this openly in public.
- Further more it is not appropriate to change a girl this age in the same way as a toddler. It should be done privately in a cubicle (if at all).
- It is certainly not okay for this girls brother to be changing her, at home or at school under any circumstances.
- It is not okay for this mother to not involve medical professional to ensure that this is behavioural and not medical.

I am not surprised at your name 'Frustrated Mum'.

You do not seem to have tried anything positive other than explore options to allow her to continue and facilitate this continuing.

Have you tried telling her that it is not appropriate? Have you tried putting her in a skirt with no pants on during the weekend and if she makes a mess telling her to clean it up? Why is she allowed out to friends houses? - why are you putting the onus on the other mums to deal with this? Why have you not taken her to the Drs? Health Visitor? etc Why do you clean her up - she is old enough to do it herself. Why are you humouring this young lady. Why are you not shocked enough at your daughter to something to stop it. You have to do something to stop this and you have to do it now!!!

I really wish that you could stand back from this and think how you would react seeing someone else doing what you are doing.

I am amazed by many things in my roles as a mum, a childminder, a friend, a playgroup leader, a sister etc etc etc BUT this seriously takes the prize and is definately on a level of child abuse albeit unintentional.

You have to stop this now.

I suggest that you get proper medical help with this tomorrow.

To the other humouring mums - I expect to hear words in response like - unsympathetic, hard, brutal etc etc- but stop and think how you would react if it was your child and what you would want to hear. What you want to hear is not always the best advice. What you need to hear is like medicine with a bitter taste.

I really do hope that this is some sort of sick joke though because I feel really angry that this is happening.

Fiona

Im with you Fiona!!!

Oh Mommy!

Fiona, you seem to be mixing us up.

I have a six year old daughter who has recently been having accidents. I will take her to the Doctor if it carries on much longer. I would never change her in the middle of the shopping mall - I feel embarrassed changing her in public toilets but I have little choice if she messes while we are out.

She has visited one friend since the problem started. The friend's Mum was willing to change her if necessary (thankfully it wasn't) and I didn't want her social life to completely disappear while we're sorting this problem out. Her brother has changed her twice to help me out. My daughter didn't mind and it gave me a welcome respite from constantly cleaning her up. I wouldn't have let him do it if she had been a teenager. The idea of him changing her at school probably wasn't a good one - it was just something I considered in the heat of the moment.

Jackie's daughter was the one changed in the middle of the mall and on tables in the corridor by the entrances to the Ladies and Mens Rooms. She wore nappies/diapers from the age of 8 to 14 because she had been constantly 'going in her pants' (to use Jackie's words) before that. Jackie still has to change her occasionally now that she's 16. I don't know if you are directing your criticism at Jackie. I personally don't want to criticise another Mum for doing what she feels best for her daughter, especially when she has been so understanding of my problem. Anyway, older children wearing nappies in the States is probably more socially acceptable than it is here.

Needing a diaper at an older age can very often be a sign of emotional insecurity. This does not necessarily mean that there is anything socially unacceptable with the child, it could just be that they are having a difficult time managing their feelings and have "given up" inside. A child in this situation will not necessarily display any other outward signs of insecurity, and very often, this insecurity is not triggered by any particular happenings or incidnets in the child's life, so this often goes undetected. My advice is to just make sure that your child knows that you are there for them and support them (though not necessarily their behaviour) at all times. Maybe you could also speak to a professional or do some research on the dynamics of childrens' emotions to help you and your daughter through and perhaps find a solution to the problem. Good luck!

Fiona, Jackie was simply trying to make the best out of a bad situation. If her daughter was going to continually wee and poo in her pants then surely putting her in diapers was a sensible idea. You cannot force anyone to use the toilet if they don't want to. What was the alternative - have her ruin all the furniture and carpets in the house and constantly make puddles and messes wherever she went? I would much rather stand behind a 14 year old girl in diapers at the supermarket checkout than stand behind one who might wee all over the floor at any time.

Jackie is probably the best person to say why she chose to change her daughter rather than make her change herself but I imagine it helped form a close bond between mother and daughter.

Frustrated Mom, Linda, thank you for supporting me and my right to raise my daughter how I see fit.
Yes, I put her in diapers because she was constantly having accidents. Putting her in diapers kept the clean up time to a minimum and seemed to be the best thing to do. I was not going to make people suffer in public. How would you like to be walking behind someone who has pooped their pants? There were a couple times when it ran down her leg. Do you think the workers in the mall like to clean that up? Or cleaning a large pee spot?
Why was I the one who changed her diaper? That's easy. It was much faster for me to do it, and I knew when I did I wouldnt get a mess everywhere. Simple as that.

Hi

Firstly to 'frustrated mum' - I'm sorry, yes I have confused this. I apologise for seeming to direct this at you. You are right, although a six year old should be 'dry' it is a bit more excusable than a 14 year old. I hope that you manage to get to the bottom of this before long.

However, I feel that the things I said were valid especially to the people who think it is okay to be carrying on with this when their child is a lot older.

To address issues since my post I would say in response:-

Visits - you are saying to your child that it is acceptable and there are no consequences for this behaviour. It may have been a bargaining tool to say that she could only go to her friends when the 'accidents' stopped.

Son - I am glad that you will not be asking your son to do this. Your children are your responsibility not their siblings. Of course a loving and affectionate son will not complain - all children like to help out naturally BUT he will resent it and her if it continues. Its not what he should be doing at 10.

I would not go by what Americans do, after all they are the fattest nation, statistically the most unhealthy and not a role model I would use in general for my children to model themselves on. If your child comes home and says can I smoke and take drugs cause they do in America - what do you say? Okay then it myst be alright!!?? I don't think so.

As for thinking that the only way to deal with this at 16 is to change her and accept it - I wouldn't. I would try a lot of other things first - you get plastic pants that are elastic at the legs so that it would not run down her legs and if she walked around in this mess for long enough I bet she'd stop it. I can imagine that there is no incentive as someone changes her straight away and she is not uncomfortable and embarrased. Maybe if she had been deeply embarrased, humiliated and realised what she is doing is wrong, she would not continue to do it.

I do not mean to be critical. However, I think that some people cant see the wood for the trees and sometimes need to be told how it is - otherwise what is the point of posting issues on this board - just to get sympathy and a nice manner? - people who post generally want help to sort a problem and will weigh up all responses - now that there is a mixture of responses and people realise that maybe there is a different angle and way to deal with it, maybe the problem can be sorted. Otherwise, why post in the first place?

If there is no medical reason for a child of teenage years to be in nappies then it can only be emotional or behavioural. Emotional problems usually show in an assortment of possibly subtle ways but they will be there. It will not be the case that everything else is completely 100% normal - there will be other signs, unless of course you are not looking hard enough.

As for changing nappies helping to form a bond between mother and daughter. I'm lost for words with that!! That's complete and utter nonsense. What kind of excuse will that be for all sorts of other harmful parenting. I give her sweets to help bond - yes I know she's obese but we're close! I buy her cigarettes cause we can smoke together and bond! I let her drink my gin & tonic cause it helps us bond - never mind that she is still breadtfeeding - it helps us bond!!! - It an escuse and a crazy one at that.

As for not criticising other parenting. If you come on the board with such an outrageous reply to a 6 year old problem by comparing it to a teenager doing the same then I'm afraid people will say it how it is. I would say it to my best friend, sister etc etc and if you ask for help or advise you get it how it is - not puffed up in pink frills.

As for doing things for our kids - yes it is easier to do it ourselves 95% of the time but you know what - you will not be around to wipe their bums when they are 50. They need to learn and we are the teachers. My son does not HAVE to make his bed, do dishes, hoover etc etc BUT I have him do it because I am a good parent who is teaching him how to be a good adult. And no I don't pay him pocket money either to do these jobs - no one pays me to make my bed and no one will pay him either when he is an adult so why start something that will not continue. One day they will leave the nest and you will be proud that they can stand on their own two feet and look after themselves if you have done a good job and they are self sufficient.

I think thats all I have to say for now but I'm sure there will be some people who do not like what I've said but thats life and you don't have to but hey - thats freedom of speech for you. I am not the only one to have these thoughts. Just felt that maybe a look at the grass on the other side might not be so messy!!

Fiona

fiona,
I agree with most of what you said...I dont think its propper to bash americans, you can best belive I have never ever, heard or seen such a thing as a normal 14 year old wearing diapers because they poop themselves.
They are usually trying their luck at wearing makeup, talking on the phone, playing video games, walking through malls with friend, or trying to date.

I just cant imagine what Jackie is saying to be true...a 16 year old only has to grow,learn, and gain experience until adult hood, before they are rasing a child of their own, and to think their is a 16 year old girl out there in the world letting her 10 year old brother change her diaper is rediculous, Im sorry but I cant find a way to understand or be understanding to such a thing...unless of course the child has some sort of medical situation.And if she doesnt...she would change herself, her pride should have been enuff.

Frustrated mom...if your little 6 year old still has accidents thats understandable, just get hold of the situation before your bying diapers for a 10 year old.

Again, you are mixing us up. The 6 year olds 10 year old brother changes her. My daughter is 16. She hsa no brother. She has also been out of diapers since she was 14. She has occasional accidents now and I change her, no one else.

you guys are all crazy. I live in the united states,and over here, it would be considered child abuse if you were changing a 14 year old girl in public. That is just wrong. As for the 10 year old boy changing his 6 year old sister willingly, it's not normal. Children regress when something happens to them. Have either of you parents considered that your child could have been molested?

right...sorry, again its very easy to confuse a 14-16 year old in diapers with a 6 year old. My comment is still the same minus the comment about the 10 year old changing.

I agree...this is regression and is very often a sign of molestation (to the mom of the 6 year old).
As far as the teen goes....who may "occasionally" have an accident...but is finally out of diapers....common now

As I was putting my daughter (the 6 year old, to those who are still confused) to bed on Wednesday, a day in which she had both messed and wet her knickers, she suddenly said to me 'Mummy, I'm not going to poo my knickers any more.' I gave her a hug and said I was pleased but in my mind I decided to wait and see if she was true to her word - and she has been. She has not messed her knickers since, nor has she wet herself. I officially declare that my daughter's knickers are now an accident free zone!!!!!

Thank you to everyone for their support. Best of luck to Jackie in helping her daughter to finally stop having accidents. I'm sorry some people have judged you harshly, Jackie.

I am an American. I am very proud of my country. Fiona, I take great offense to the slanderous comment that you have made about America. It is NOT standard practice for American children to wear diapers after the age of two or three. By your assuming that it is something that frequently happens in the States, you are showing your own ignorance. It is also not common practice for our children to smoke or take drugs, as you stated. I believe that you have responded as an angry, uniformed person with a terribly closed mind. I would never issue general insult about another country. Have you no respect for yourself or your own country? Just as you are wrong to issue generalities about an entire country based on you your own limited knowledge, it would be wrong of me to "assume" that all people in your country are ignorant, just because you have presented yourself in that manner.

As for the troubles the other mothers are having with their daughters, I wish you the very best. This must be very trying on your entire families. I commend you for handling the situation the best way you can. I cannot say how I would handle it, because I have never been in your place. I feel like there has to be something going on in your children's mind or lives that makes this acceptable to them. I do not know any American teen-agers that would be ok with the same situation. Again, I wish you the best.

Fiona, you should try to broaden your horizons to encompass more than your own world. There are many pros to learning to keep your mouth shut when you only have unpleasantness to spew.

Tammy

I am Scottish but that doesn't mean that I blindly defend the country - poeple may mistakes, countries make mistakes - I am not so naive that everything Scottish people do is 100% okay and I will do exactly as my neighbour does cause she's Scottish too!!

I think that you have every right to reply on here but please don't reply to my personal email address in future.

However, there is a lot been said already and you may have misunderstood what I did actually write in the same way as I misunderstood and subsequently apologised for.

"I would not go by what Americans do" - for the record I would not do what Germans do, or French do or any other nation for that matter - I do what I do because its right for me and my family - I am not a sheep - I make up my own mind.

"after all they are the fattest nation, statistically the most unhealthy" - this is well known to be statisctically true - not my opinion but fact - and yes I said it but its about a nation not a person therefore cannot be slanderous!

"not a role model I would use in general for my children to model themselves on" - I do not encourage my children to role model on anyone specifically from any nation specifically in general. That's my business and my opinion. There are a lot of opinions here and you seem to have taken offence at mine - I wonder why as I have not said anything directly at you.

"If your child comes home and says can I smoke and take drugs cause they do in America - what do you say? Okay then it myst be alright!!?? I don't think so." I only used America as someone else said something about that nation in a previous post - I would not condone it from Irish, Welsh, English OR Scottish people for that matter nor would I from family, friends or neighbours if it was something I did not want for my children.

So - thats my reasoning and defense - take it or leave it - I know what I meant and no one else has been quite so verbal as you - I assume from what you wrote that you are extremely defensive in general but very verbally defensive about America.

Exactly what did I say that was slanderous?? I did not say that Americans wore diapers at two or three - someone else did. I did not assume that that frequently happens because I don't know this to be fact and also I don't really care.

It is unfortunately becoming common practice for children (eg under 18) to smoke and take drugs in most counties. I believe that more and more children are trying it and many stay hooked - that's in most countries - not just yours. I have also not insulted yours or any other country specifically - it was used as an example of people being sheep - I gave my opinion and some well known facts. What is it that I am ignorant about? - my opinion - haven't you heard about freedom of speech?

As for keeping my mouth shut - I have said nothing directly against you and have not said anything unpleasant against you - you have, so that in my eyes means that you are more ignorant and unpleasant than me.

Just for the record - my children are happy, healthy, loving children from a stable two parent family home and do not have psychopath for a mother - I'm not insinuating that you are by the way!

And for the record - do not send personal emails to my email address - I have blocked you from my address list. That is overstapping the mark!!

Fiona, Also let me add....I agree with you 100% when you said this...." I am absolutely gobsmacked to read this topic and the numerous replies on this.

What on earth is going on here. I assumed that I had missed something and this young adult was mentally or physically disabled. If she does not have a medical reason for doing this then why are all the adults allowing it. And why are the majority or replies feeling sympathy for the mother? This is craziness and there seems to me to be nothing being done to either stop this child or point the mother in the right direction "

I dont know how the subject/topic changed to something political???

TO be honest Fiona I do think the statement that you made

" I would not go by what Americans do, after all they are the fattest nation, statistically the most unhealthy and not a role model I would use in general for my children to model themselves on. If your child comes home and says can I smoke and take drugs cause they do in America - what do you say? Okay then it myst be alright!!?? I don't think so."

Was totally uncalled for, in response or defense of anything concerning a "healthy" teenage child wearing diapers/having BM's by accident.
I am also American and why it wasn’t enough for me to respond to at first...I must ask in what day dream or imagination, could you possibly think that above statement is valid? Yes we are an overweight nation...but I would bet you couldn’t find 1 "healthy/developmentally normal" teen in the whole country wearing pampers and pooping themselves...and letting their parents change their diapers to boot!
You saying things like blindly following /sheep have something to do with our government....and nothing to do with our opinions on teens in diapers

QUOTE - "Anyway, older children wearing nappies in the States is probably more socially acceptable than it is here." copied from f"rustrated mom" Feb 2nd.

I DID NOT mention Americans letting their childreN/teens wear nappies past the normal time - I only responded in a way I thought would be construed as - okay so someone else does it - so what - that doesnt make it right.

I've had it with this topic - its crazy that you try to offer advice and shine a light for someone who is blinded by what is happening to them. I feel sorry for the ones who defend this kind of behaviour or challenge someone trying to help by getting political. Maybe you should all go back and re-read what I did say and what I was responding to. God knows I can sleep at night!!

Good luck to the mums that want help with a problem and can accept a bit of constructive criticism in a positive manner. Is that what this site is about or is it lets attack the one who speaks the truth?

Fiona

I have a very happy and healthy daughter. She is an A student, she has tons of friends. She's never depressed, she's not rattling on about boys, she's not having sex, she's not doing drugs, and she's not drinking. Yes, she wore diapers until she was 14, yes she wore Pull Ups until she was 15. Just because society says a child needs to be out of diapers before their third birthday I'm being attacked here. I think some of you don't even believe me. I have plenty of pictures in my photo album to prove I'm telling the truth. And don't anyone dare scream abuse, they are family photos, most are taken with family or friends.

Jackie
If by chance you were suggesting that your daughters had an inability to control her bowl, and it was a private matter I could understand that completely, but even then it would be a secret so to speak.. to suggest that she was ok with a younger brother change her, with you changing her in the mall.(doesnt matter if it was 1 time or 50 times). to be put up on diaper changing stations, its far fetched, thats like telling us there is a teen in the world who lets her mother change her sanatary napkins .....common now. No one is judging you as much as being honest about the situation you describe.

If she is an A student and she is normal in all other ways, there is obviously a problem with her body when it comes to bodily matters...and its not a simple case of accidents I still think you are having a go at us!

Having a go? Fine, as you can see from the other post I made, I don't feel comfortable having a picture of my daughter on the internet. But I'll take a chance for now, and delete it after you see it, and I prove to you that I am telling the truth.
My daughter had me take a picture of her and her best friend at a sleepover two weeks ago with her cell phone. My daughter is on the left, it's right before bed so she's wearing her Pull Ups.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e361/Jackie4321/Pic1.jpg

Very brave of you Jackie,

If your daughter needs continence support then I think it is very strong and generous of you to provide it.

The manufacturers make larger sized nappies/diapers, pull-ups, goodnites, pad & pant systems and other absorbent solutions for people from newborn to and including adults because their is a need for it (making a market for it.)

Humans aren't naturally designed to wear nappies, we have them for those who need them to make our lives easier and cleaner, unless any of you prudes have some instructions from your god about it or some obsure law banning it that you would like to share with us all?

Any family that has gone through having a teen on alcohol/drugs, running wild with hoodlums or following their hormones to awkward positions I am positive would definately swap the experience for a happy well adjusted child and a few extra years of nappy changing.

If anyone wants to put an age limit on nappies then shouldn't you be age limiting the need for milk as well?

I dont know about and age limit, but 16yrs is past it! As far as in-continence is concerned, that is a medical problem which Jackie has clearly stated her child doesnt have....as for teens who run wild smoking and the such...could you imagine one of them sprawled out in the mall...while mum changes their bum? at 13? powder too?

Ah well I wish Jackie and daughter the best for the future and was just amazed that anyone could be offended/concerned about someone elses child being dependant on nappies whatever the age.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e361/Jackie4321/Pic1.jpg

Look at the picture I posted again. Does my daughter look unhappy? She's 16 right there. Wearing Pull Ups. I have pictures of when she was younger and wearing full out diapers if you would like to see those too.

She's happy, she always has been. Does it matter that she wore diapers longer than most? Would you be that upset if you did see a 13 year old getting their bum wiped and powdered and diapered would you be that upset? Would you go say something to the parent?

I honestly can't see the harm in it and I do think it makes you a much kinder and more open parent to go through the act of changing nappies for the extra years.

While a huggies ad was on the tv the other day the 8 year old at home even said it would be cool to wear nappies again, so I don't think it's that uncommon for kids to want that extra bit of hands on attention.

Put your photos up and see what people say.

You lot are absolutely mad and need a parenting course - what about helping them to grow up to be responsible and with feelings of importance, this is not the way to ensure your kids feel loved - its undervaluing their self-worth. You lot think its cool to 'baby' your kids - your off your heads!!! They will not be proud of this when theyre older.

Have some self respect and stop this stupidity - both the actions and the posting and bragging that its okay

IT IS NOT

In your opinion Fiona

I agree that this is a bad situation for all involved (the parents & the children). BUT must you always be SO NICE, Fiona?

Don't get me wrong folks, I am not belittling the parents/others in this who genuinely have a problem. Far from it - I think they need help.

What I am so frustrated at is the way that it is being discussed on here like its okay. It may be okay for them to do it their way - but do it in private and dont expect acceptance from others cause you more than likely wont get it. What is happening is odd, no 2 ways about it. Most people will think it is odd for a teenager to be in nappies and changed in public. More people will think it strange for the parents to think that its okay to do it. Probably all parents will not change places with there parents even if a pile of money was offered in exchange.

I just feel its sad that parents can post their daughters piccy on here in nappies for all and sundry to see - what if their daughters friends use the board! Will they be proud of it when they are getting married - will they tell their husband - I don't think so.

Okay so if it works for you - fine- but keep it private.

"Most people will think it is odd for a teenager to be in nappies and changed in public. More people will think it strange for the parents to think that its okay to do it."

At one time people thought it wrong for women to have a say, people not of the majority ethnic background to have a vote and people with disabilities to be seen in public. Thankfully things have changed.

Personally I think it's society (yourself included) that needs to have a bit of acceptance for things that are outside the normal comfort zone especially since these things can't really hurt.

If Jackies daughters future partner doesn't like the idea that she needed/used/uses continance protection then I would say both of them would need to think about what they love and like about each other rather than worrying about what someone else might think.

I don't know why some people get so worked up over this. It's just a diaper. What is the difference between seeing a 2 year old girl getting her diaper changed and a 14 year old getting her diaper changed?
Is it really that bad that she didn't start potty training until she was 15? Is it so horrible I had a 15 year old wearing Pull Ups, reminding when to go potty, and changing when she had an accident? I mean, hey, she's 16 now, still has accidents. She wears special cotten panties during the day incase she has a small accident, and at bed time, she still wears Pull Ups. I still change her in the morning too.
Is the world coming to an end because of this? I don't think so. I think some people are getting worked up over nothing though.

Jackie, is there a reason why she can't change herself in the morning? I don't think anyone has a problem with a teenager having continence problems, I think it is you changing her that people find unusual. My 11 year old isn't incontinent, but does have periods, she sorts herself out. I don't touch her sanitary towels and she wouldn't want me to do that. I think encouraging our children to develop independence is an important part of parenting and my daughter taking care of matters like this is an important part of growing up. I understand that children develop at different rates but at 16 very few children couldn't take a pair of pull-ups off and shower themselves. It is part of growing up that children begin to want to have their own privacy. Of course I used to bathe and wash my daughter and now she does it herself. She would hate the idea of people seeing her half naked if I changed her in a shopping mall. If your daughter needs pull-ups at night... fine ... that's not an issue to me. But surely an intelligent A grade student that your daughter appears to be can manage to change herself?