I find agreement with many of the points here. i think the issue is really morality...which all religions teach morality. i really like Master Hancock's expression of the trinity from the tao, i have often explained it as thus: we are created in the image of our maker...we have a body a mind and a spirit...in Christ God has a body, in the Father he has a mind and in the Holy spirit he has spirit. very interesting.
Getting back to proper mindset, there are clear ways one should and should not act, and we all know them for the most part. i do think that what makes a master should be a higher standard of holding to those shoulds and should nots through spiritual and mental conditioning. being a Christian i try to hold obviously to my saviors standard of me (though, being mortal i often fail) but in recognizing falure i gain forgiveness and move on.
now i'm not throwing religion into a secular board...i never like to soud preachy but i think thats important to our culture. for a good amount of my junior high and highsschool years i was a practicing buddhist/taoist...so i'm exceedingly familiar with those philosophies. and getting back to the original point...morality, it is the job of a master to conduct himself in a moral, just and proper way...in all circumstances to the best he/she knows how. we give that ability the abstract name of Moodo...and yes, i think Master hancock has a point that it is often become a cliche and scapegoat term...but to borrow from the new matrix:"it is just a word what matters is the connection it implies"
Morality is constant in all religions and philsophies, well ok...except under anton levay lol...but you get my point.
goodness comes from what is good, evil comes from what is evil, and it is up to us and OUR God to decide on all the gray areas, no?, MasterSegarra is right, simplicity is a major key.
-Tang Soo!!!-J

As a non-religious person, I have a tendency to believe that religion often clouds and distorts our concept of morality. In my view, morality is not something that can be defined because there is no such thing as a good act or an evil act - thinking simply makes it so. The doctrines of religion are too often used as a means to justify ones morality, and this can bring people into conflict with each other (i.e. Jews/Muslims, Christians/Muslims, Christians/Jews, etc.). In its purest state, morality is simply a human construct or code intended to keep a society functional. The problem is that different societies function in different ways, and therefore morality varies across societies. This, combined with man's blind acceptance of religious precepts is what has caused so much conflict for mankind throughout the millenia.

Although I believe religion causes more problems than it solves, I believe spirituality is important for every individual. It is important for people to find themselves and define their own morality. Some people will define moralities that help society and will flourish in life. Some people will define moralities that destroy society and will ultimately be destroyed by that society. In the end, we are merely an ordinary race of mammals that evolved intelligence as a survival trait, in an ordinary solar system on the outskirts of an ordinary galaxy. Our lives are merely blip on the eternity of the universe, and our problems are inconsequential to its function. Sounds depressing, but in a sense it humbles you. I almost find it arrogant to believe that a higher-being watches over us and judges us on a constant basis - I don't believe we are that important.

I wish I knew where religion came from...
I never metnioned religions I mentioned philosophical schools. Therin lies the sidetrack.

I like the Morality thing, thats the direction I am looking towards.

often stray interjections lead to being sidetracked. sorry, partially my fault lol. -J

Nah! It was fun!

I feel I must ad something here for Leviathan's contemplation. I return you to a previous thread about 'Qi' in which I posted the following:

"The is sea within you and without you. The sea is in every breath you take in, every morsel you eat and every drop you drink. The sea is in every sound you hear and in every sound you make. The sea surrounds you, invades you, caresses you and sustains you. Everything in your world is made of the sea, even you yourself. The reason you cannot find the sea is because the sea is everywhere you look. You are born in the sea, live in the sea...and when you die...you will return to the sea. The sea is your life. The sea is all life."

My application of the above is with regard to Leviathans statement:

"In the end, we are merely an ordinary race of mammals that evolved intelligence as a survival trait, in an ordinary solar system on the outskirts of an ordinary galaxy. Our lives are merely blip on the eternity of the universe, and our problems are inconsequential to its function."

I do not find that either of our statements are incongruent with one another. Au contrare, I find them to match up perfectly. If we accept that the 'Universe' is sentient as I have describe, and that we are merely a portion within that sentience, while keeping in mind that the 'Universe' will continue to function irregardless of what actions we take, we should also keep in mind that it is the 'ordinariness' of our being that is significant, as the sheer numbers involved predispose that 'we are not alone'. The question you have to ask yourself...seriously...is how would the sudden appearance of an extraterrestrial intelligence affect your understanding of spirituality? Now ask the second question...What if 'they' told you 'they' were spiritual beings and find it puzzling that we can't see that 'we' are too!?~

JH

The only thing there John, is that Qi is energy. According to physical laws, energy can neither be created nor destroyed. If this is true, it could be taken to mean that each bit of energy is also vital to the whole. Remember that some have called Qi to be vital energy.

In both Taoism and Buddhism, as well as other disciplines which strongly feature this concept, the individual is looked at as a piece of a larger whole. If the law of the Taiji is to be correct, and the Bagua is a correct illustration, each person would be a necessity because of the that person's place in either "fish" as it were.(Yin and Yang have sometimes been described as 'fish' due to the fact that they seem to swim about each other).

I don't know that I agree about us returning to the see upon death. Are you using sea as an illustration for universe?

Yes...the principle of conservation of energy does apply...at least in our 4 dimensional universe. This may or may not be true for higher or other dimensions (and we are looking at 11 now as the number needed to balance out all the equations...or so I'm told).

"I don't know that I agree about us returning to the see upon death. Are you using sea as an illustration for universe?"

Yes. Absolutely. You cannot be seperated from the universe...at least not at this stage. The concept of mind or personality being a construct of the universe at a quantum level instead of at a molecular one has finally started to catch on with the scientific community....since we now have M-theory. This only makes sense...and recent studies in NDE seems to confirm this.

JH

Thank you. I assumed as much but thought it more prudent to ask.

To clarify my position on the matter of spirituality, I believe that spirituality is a natural and positive (for the most part) aspect of humanity stemming out of our intelligence and curiousity concerning the universe. Although I'm a non-religious person, I am a spiritual person. However, I decided long ago that rather than follow the doctrines of an organized religion, I'd come to my own conclusions concerning the universe and my place in it. In a way, I feel that organized religion clouds spirituality within an individual. With it, one no longer tries to seek out the truth within themselves because the truth is written in a book, manuscript, or some other religious text. Not to mention, the texts that we read today have been rewritten thousands of times by priests and scholars and kings to fit the political realities of the day.

So, in summary, I'm simply saying that religion and spirituality are two separate entities and are often mutually exclusive.