Biblical Universalist Discussion Forum
Welcome to my forum. Feel free to post a message.
|
||
| Return to Website | ||
 First |
 Prev |
 Reply |
 Forum |
Next  |
Last  |
| Viewing Page 1 of 1 (Total Posts: 2) |
| Author | Comment |
|
Zach
Aug 28, 07 - 9:06 PM |
Retributive justice and the penal substitutionary theory of the atonement
I'm just wondering, who here holds to these? Also, who holds to Anselm's idea that sin is infinite because it is directed against an infinitely holy God? If not, I'd be interested in hearing your alternate views. J.P. Holding, by the way, defends an honor-shame (rather than pain-based) understanding of the substitutionary atonement, which accords with his own views on hell. I found it rather interesting, and I think it's definitely plausible: http://www.tektonics.org/uz/2muchshame.html The other interesting theory I've heard was mentioned by C.S. Lewis in Mere Christianity (though I do not know whether he thought it up). He suggests that since in our fallen state, we cannot repent perfectly, we need supernatural help to do so, and that Christ did this through His death -- Lewis views repentance as a type of death, and imagines that Christians are, in a sense, immersed in that death. I don't know if it's plausible, but it is interesting. |
Mike Burke
 Aug 28th, 2007 - 11:04 PM |
Re: Retributive justice and the penal substitutionary theory of the atonement
[Quote] who holds to Anselm's idea that sin is infinite because it is directed against an infinitely holy God? If not, I'd be interested in hearing your alternate views. [unquote] Sin is committed by finite creatures, who can't even conceive of an infinite God. If our sin is infinite, and it deserves infinite punishment, why did Christ speak of degrees of punishment? And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. (Luke 12:47-48.) How can infinite punishment be measured, or divided? How can there be degrees? [Quote] I'm just wondering, who here holds to these (Retributive justice and the penal substitutionary theory of the atonement)? [unquote] I believe judgment involves setting things right, and there are many ways of looking at Christ's substitutionary atonement. One of the oldest is the ransom to Satan theory, and I believe it contains some truth. Satan is called the god of this world (2 Cor. 4:4.) Our first parents chose to obey Satan rather than God, and in a sense sold themselves to Satan (and all of us do the same thing individually): Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? (Romans 6:16.) I believe Christ's atonement was meant to do at least three things. 1.) To remove the property claim Satan had over us 2.) To show us what sin is 3.) To show us what love is Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy (or render idle, see Strong's Concordance) him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. (Heb. 2:14-15.) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh (Romans 8:3.) ...scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:7-8.) And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. (John 17:19.) We love him, because he first loved us. (1 John 4:19.) A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (John 13:34.) For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps (1 Peter 2:21.) There's so much involved in the subject of Christ's atonement that I don't believe any one theory can fully explain it. [Quote] The other interesting theory I've heard was mentioned by C.S. Lewis in Mere Christianity (though I do not know whether he thought it up). He suggests that since in our fallen state, we cannot repent perfectly, we need supernatural help to do so, and that Christ did this through His death -- Lewis views repentance as a type of death, and imagines that Christians are, in a sense, immersed in that death. I don't know if it's plausible, but it is interesting. [unquote] It is interesting, and I suspect there's some truth to that too. G-d Bless. |
| First |
Prev |
Reply |
Forum |
Next |
Last |
powered by
bravenet.com