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| Viewing Page 1 of 1 (Total Posts: 6) |
| Author | Comment |
pawz
Jul 25, 07 - 4:01 PM |
2 Tim 2:11-13
2Tim 2:11-13 Stedfast is the word: For if we died together--we also shall live together; if we do endure together--we shall also reign together; if we deny him , he also shall deny us; if we are not stedfast, he remaineth stedfast; to deny himself he is not able. would appreciate a Universalist explanation of these verses. The word 'if' bothers me a little :) |
Mike Burke
 Jul 25th, 2007 - 5:37 PM |
Re: 2 Tim 2:11-13
If we have not died together with Christ and His saints, we will not live together with them (at the same time with them) in the coming age. If we do not endure together, we will not reign together (in the coming age.) These things are reserved for the elect, which ties in with something else Paul wrote to Timothy: for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of all men -- especially of those believing. (1 Tim. 4:10.) Those believing and enduring have a special salvation in Christ, but notice that even toward the unfaithful, Christ cannot deny Himself (2 Tim. 2:13.) Jesus is God (John 20:28), and God is Love (1 John 4:8.) To punish endlessly, without the aim of correcting the object of His punishment, would be a denial of who He is. |
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Mickiel
Jul 25th, 2007 - 10:51 PM |
Re: 2 Tim 2:11-13
I think the use of the word " If" here has nothing to do with a" called out group" of individuals that God is dealing with, or trying to focus on the behavior of a believer, the " If" is just Pauls way of showing how faithless we can be, and how faithful God is reguardless of what we do. Humans are " If", or unstable, God is not. Peace. |
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Mike Burke
Jul 26th, 2007 - 3:31 AM |
Re: 2 Tim 2:11-13
[Quote] I think the use of the word " If" here has nothing to do with a" called out group" of individuals that God is dealing with, or trying to focus on the behavior of a believer, the " If" is just Paul's way of showing how faithless we can be, and how faithful God is reguardless of what we do. Humans are " If", or unstable, God is not. [unquote] As I said: [Quote] Jesus is God (John 20:28), and God is Love (1 John 4:8.) To punish endlessly, without the aim of correcting the object of His punishment, would be a denial of who He is. [unquote] God is also Holy, and turning a blind eye to unrepentant sin would also be a denial of who He is. I believe the use of the word " If" has a great deal to do with a called out group of individuals that God is dealing with, and upon whose behavior Paul must focus from time to time. Peace. |
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Pam
Aug 5th, 2007 - 5:07 AM |
Re: 2 Tim 2:11-13
'If' Christ indwells us, (the called out state), we truly aren't able to deny Him for the simple fact that He Who lives in us will not deny us. We endure because He is faithful to endure. 
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Mike Burke
Aug 5th, 2007 - 9:10 PM |
Re: 2 Tim 2:11-13
An interesting thought Pam. Thank you (and G-d Bless.) |
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