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Mike Burke
 Apr 25, 07 - 11:15 AM |
The Hopeful Universalism of Orthodox Bishop Timothy Ware
(I've added the following to my main page.) Our Eastern Orthodox brethren are aware of this teaching, and even today remain cautiously open to it. Bishop Timothy Ware wrote: "Hell exists as a final possibility, but several of the Fathers have none the less believed that in the end all will be reconciled to God....we must not despair of anyone's salvation, but must long and pray for the reconciliation of all without exception. No one must be excluded from our loving intercession. 'What is a merciful heart?' asked Isaac the Syrian. 'It is a heart that burns with love for the whole of creation, for humans, for birds, for the beasts, for the demons, for all creatures.' Gregory of Nyssa said that Christians may legitimately hope even for the redemption of the devil." (The Orthodox Church, 1997 ed., p. 262) |
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pam
Sep 28th, 2007 - 11:20 PM |
Re: The Hopeful Universalism of Orthodox Bishop Timothy Ware
I think one's theology is probably more revealing of the one that holds to it than of God Himself. The idea of the complete Restoration of all people and all things created to God at the end of time takes many years of spiritual growth, in my estimation, to reach simply because the human heart which is naturally very self-centered and small must be opened very, very wide and filled to the brim with the Love of God. |
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Mike Burke
Oct 2nd, 2007 - 9:33 AM |
Re: The Hopeful Universalism of Orthodox Bishop Timothy Ware
[Quote] The idea of the complete Restoration of all people and all things created to God at the end of time takes many years of spiritual growth, in my estimation, to reach...[unquote] It would be nice if that were true, but I'm afraid I don't entirely agree. As you recently pointed out to me, some Muslims could be considered universalists, and they don't even see their need for a Savior. Some people just like the idea of everyone getting to heaven (particularly themselves, and most particularly if they don't have to first pay for anything they've done in this life--which is why the totally unscriptural "Death and Glory" brand of universalism became the dominant view in the Unitarian Universalist Association.) David Brandt Berg founded a cult that teaches universalism, and is totally antinomian (meaning they're against any kind of fixed morality--a heresy that some of the Corinthians seem to have fallen into, until it was strongly rebuked by the Apostle Paul in two of his letters.) Berg and his followers probably went further then any of the Corinthians, in that they encouraged female cult members to practice what they called "flirty fishing": Flirty Fishing (FFing) was a form of religious prostitution practiced by the Children of God/The Family cult from 1974 until it was officially discontinued in 1987 (due, in part, to the AIDS scare). Its etymology can be traced to Matthew 4:19 where Jesus says "Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men." http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Flirty_Fishing At least seven women, including both his daughters, his daughter-in-law and two of his granddaughters, have publicly alleged that Berg sexually abused them when they were children. http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/David_Berg These were not just David Berg's personal sins, as the group itself is extremely antinomianist: The group's liberal sexuality and its publication and distribution of writings, photographs and videos advocating and documenting adult-child sexual contact and the sexualization of children have led to numerous reports of child abuse. Family leadership, admitting only that some children were abused from 1978 until 1986, created policies prohibiting excessive discipline or any sexual contact between adults and minors. From 1989 until the present, The Family has issued numerous contradictory statements regarding when it enacted these policies and what these policies were. The Family has stated at various times that it banned and made adult-child sexual contact an excommunicable offense in 1985, 1986, 1987 and 1988. Investigations in several countries have found The Family to currently to be a safe environment for children, but such investigations have also brought to light a troubled past. Many critics do not trust The Family to police itself today, due in part to the group's policy of not turning child abusers over to civil authorities, and only excommunicating members who abused children after 1988. The Family requires individuals who report child abuse to a law enforcement agency or pursue legal action against an alleged abuser to leave the group's communal homes and move to a lower commitment membership status until the matter is resolved, after which they must reapply for their former membership status if they wish to return. http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/The_Family_International I do not believe David Berg reached his concept of universalism (if he himself truly believed in any religious concepts) thru "many years of spiritual growth"--on the contrary, I believe he simply learned to tell some young people what they wanted to hear. In the history of the Church, there have been many devout sons and daughters who have come to believe in universal salvation after years of spiritual growth (having their hearts opened, and "filled to the brim with the Love of God" as you say.) Such Christians know what love is. They recognize sin for what it is, see our need for a Savior, believe in repentance, and believe in just punishment for unrepented sins--but not all who call themselves universalists are Christian, devout, or spiritually mature. Some have little use for God's word, no idea what love is, and have certainly not arrived at their conclusions through years of spiritual growth. G-d Bless. |
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pam
Oct 2nd, 2007 - 1:15 PM |
Re: The Hopeful Universalism of Orthodox Bishop Timothy Ware
Hi Mike, I was speaking of believers and I don't consider the people you mentioned to be called in Christ. They demonstrate by their behavior that they have a different Father. As far as those seeking religous unity, they don't really believe in much I don't think, they just want to belong and have human acceptance. Few of them can even give any basis for their beliefs and it seems that it is very easy to anger them by asking them to. These folks are in need of Christ but they are blind to Him. Those who are spiritually dead can't grow spiritually. I guess I am basing a great deal of what I say upon my own experience. Scripture is something I have grown into and as I grow toward spiritual maturity my understanding is less self-centered and more inclusive. My theology will tell you who I am, the way I live out my life and conduct myself among others will tell you what God has done and is doing in me through Christ. It is the fruit of the Spirit that evidences Christ in me and not what I tell you I beleive about scripture or God's plan for mankind. It is the same with all others. If we listen and watch they will tell us and demonstrate to us whether they are spiritually alive in Christ or spiritually dead to God. |
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Mike Burke
Oct 2nd, 2007 - 3:26 PM |
Re: The Hopeful Universalism of Orthodox Bishop Timothy Ware
[Quote] Those who are spiritually dead can't grow spiritually. [unquote] But some of them call themselves universalists, Reconciliationists, or even "Christian Universalists," so it's a little misleading to say that "the idea of the complete Restoration of all people and all things created to God at the end of time takes many years of spiritual growth...to reach." The Family cult believes this, some new agers believe this, and there are unitarians (both within and without the Unitarian Universalist Association) who believe this. There are even universalists who will say that repentance is no part of God's truth for today, and who claim to be followers of the Apostle Paul (though he used the word "repentance" in his letters.) This being the case, we must be careful not to mislead others into believing that such people are to be trusted. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1 Thes. 5:21.) let God be found true, though every man be found a liar (Romans 3:4.) |
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pam
Oct 2nd, 2007 - 7:20 PM |
Re: The Hopeful Universalism of Orthodox Bishop Timothy Ware
I know and that is one reason that I really don't like saying that I'm a Universalist. People always think Unitarian or New Age. Anyway, I think it is more important to identify with Christ as I have much more unity with someone of a differing escatological viewpoint who is a born again believer in Jesus Christ than I do with someone who simply labels themselves Universalist. These are confusing times and in general, I just tell people that I believe in Jesus, the Son of God and the Son of Man. |
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Mike Burke
Oct 2nd, 2007 - 8:10 PM |
Re: The Hopeful Universalism of Orthodox Bishop Timothy Ware
Amen (and G-d Bless.) |
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