Biblical Universalist Discussion Forum

Sue

Apr 20, 07 - 7:28 AM

Is God blessing the Universalist?

As someone who has only recently started to look into the concept of Universalism, I have a question that is troubling me.

If Universalism is true, why does God bless Christians who preach otherwise? For example, I have been to Christian festivals, where the Holy Spirit is clearly at work and miraculous healings have taken place. Surely God would not be blessing people who are preaching the wrong gospel? By the same token, as Universalists do you have experience of Gods blessing on you, as surely He would be keen to encourage those who have got it right!

Mike Burke

Apr 20th, 2007 - 10:43 AM

Re: Is God blessing the Universalist?

Are there no miraculous healings in the Roman Communion?

Among Protestants?

The Eastern Orthodox?

Among Charismatics and Pentecostalists?

Are such things dependent on the preacher (his faith, his doctrinal understanding); or are they dependent on God's will, and the faith of the individual who's in need of healing?

Should that faith be in the preacher and his doctrines, or in Christ; and how do you understand the following scriptures?

And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. (Luke 9:49-50.)

And:

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matt. 7:22-23.)

Mike Burke

Apr 21st, 2007 - 12:33 AM

Re: Is God blessing the Universalist?

P.S. What do you mean by "wrong Gospel"?

The Gospel is that Christ came in the flesh, died for our sins, and rose again.

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Cor. 3:11-15.)

Andrew

Apr 21st, 2007 - 12:51 AM

Re: Is God blessing the Universalist?

Mike said:

"The Gospel is that Christ came in the flesh, died for our sins, and rose again."

That sums it up, I think.

If God only blessed those who had their theology all figured out and correct none of us would be blessed. But to answer your question... I am acquainted with a number of universalist christians who are blessed in many ways, but I'm also acquainted with non-universalist christians who are blessed.

God meets us where we're at, I think.

Hope that helps, Sue.

Andrew

Mike Burke

Apr 21st, 2007 - 1:04 AM

Re: Is God blessing the Universalist?

Thank you Andrew.

God Bless.

Sue

Apr 21st, 2007 - 1:55 AM

Re: Is God blessing the Universalist?

Thank you both. I can understand and accept what you are saying. Unfortunately I am just in a bad place in my head at the moment. I've been suffering with depression for the last 8 months, and my faith has taken a real battering. The reason I became interested in Universalism was because I'm frightened that I don't trust Jesus to save me, and I am questioning whether I ever really did. The more I think about it, the harder it becomes to trust at all. I'm convinced that I am not one of God's children, even though thats what I want more than anything. I don't think I really changed for the better after praying the sinner's prayer, so I can't find any evidence for the Holy Spirit being in my life. Part of my depression has also been the fear that God is punishing me and I am going to die unsaved. As you can imagine, my imagination goes wild when thinking about what that might involve.

I am sorry to post such a negative message. Please don't think I am completely off my trolley. I can hold a perfectly sane conversation - its just that I am in a complete spiritual mess.

Andrew

Apr 21st, 2007 - 7:34 AM

Re: Is God blessing the Universalist?

Sue,

I absolutely know what you are talking about. There was a time in the not-too-distant past that I was also convinced that I was not a child of God. I was trying so desperately to hang onto God, but I would often read the Bible and find only condemnation. Through some fairly strange circumstances I was led to study Christian universalism. Part of my healing was realizing that God would come after me no matter what.

Universalism aside, I can say with all confidence that you are beloved of God, Sue. Don't exhaust yourself questioning your sincerety of heart, and your goodness. We all come before God offering nothing.

I might encourage you to simplify your approach to God at this point. Something that helped me even before studying universalism was realizing that I couldn't work, pray, or strive my way to peace. You might just start the day with a simple prayer of asking his presence for the day... Let Him do the rest.

I wish there was something more substantive I could say, but I do know where you are coming from.

God's blessings on you.

Andrew

Mike Burke

Apr 21st, 2007 - 1:46 PM

Re: Is God blessing the Universalist?

Hi Sue,

Consider what you wrote:

[Quote] I don't think I really changed for the better after praying the sinner's prayer, so I can't find any evidence for the Holy Spirit being in my life. [unquote]

Now consider what Jesus had to say regarding the Holy Spirit:

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me...And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment...(John 15: 26;16:8.)

The fact that you're convicted, and know you should be better than you are, could be taken as evidence that the Holy Spirit is in your life.

You also said:

[Quote] I'm convinced that I am not one of God's children, even though that's what I want more than anything. [unquote]

Jesus said:

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. (Matt. 5:6.)

And:

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:44.)

And:

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (John 6:37.)

It's true that he also said that if He were lifted up He would draw all to Him, and I believe that includes those who die unsaved, but that's another subject--your concern seems to be whether God is in your life now, and I believe He is.

From your comments, it would seem that you're very well aware of your own sins, and of your need of a Savior, and the sinner's prayer doesn't work overnight.

Trusting in Jesus, repenting, and growing is a life-long process.

Consider the words of Peter (who lost faith and denied our Lord on one occasion):

...giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 1:5-11.)

Also the words of Paul:

We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do...I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God - through Jesus Christ our Lord! (Romans 7:14-15, 23-25.)

And:

For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Eph. 2:10.)

I believe God is working in your life now, and that He has prepared good works for you to walk in.

Jesus said:

I say to you, Ask and keep on asking and it shall be given you; seek and keep on seeking and you shall find; knock and keep on knocking and the door shall be opened to you. For everyone who asks and keeps on asking receives; and he who seeks and keeps on seeking finds; and to him who knocks and keeps on knocking, the door shall be opened. What father among you, if his son asks for a loaf of bread, will give him a stone; or if he asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, evil as you are, know how to give good gifts [gifts that are to their advantage] to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask and continue to ask Him! (Luke 11:9-13, The Amplified Bible.)

My advise is to you is to pray, and meditate on the following verse every day.

...He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:6.)

God Bless.

Ed Smith

Apr 22nd, 2007 - 12:54 PM

Re: Is God blessing the Universalist?

First of all, I can give you a good example of God blessing those who are wrong; in fact, it is an example of God blessing those who are not properly universalistic. A funny story is told in Acts 10:1-11:18. The punchline is "When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.""

The story prior to that tells how God blessed the church tremendously with huge growth and wonderful miraculous signs. However, they not only lacked the doctrine of universalism at that time, but didn't even believe God would save anyone other than Jews. Peter himself had to be convinced by means of an elaborate vision to even go and share the gospel with them. When he returned, his associates were angry with him for even visiting Gentiles. This is why after he told his whole story it says "they quieted down." Not only was this a severe lack of universalism, but seemed to be a kind of racism. However, their hearts were focused on Christ and He eventually dealt with them about it when it was time for them to bring the gospel to the Gentiles. If, in an age to come, we are to take part in God bringing His salvation to those we don't think can be saved (those who died without Christ), then it will be necessary for God to convince all believers that He intends to save the dead. There are more important things than universalism. Those who are pointing people to Christ are servants of God and will often be blessed as such. In summary, I'd like to emphasize that God is concerned about the character of our hearts rather than the content of our brains.

Otherwise, I agree with the others here and think you just need to relax. Salvation involves trusting Jesus the person to save you, not trusting in whether you've managed to create just the right thoughts, feelings, and beliefs in your own mind. I don't think it is important that we understand just how Jesus saves us or just what has to happen in us for us to experience that salvation. What is important is that we look to the person of Christ to save us and leave it to Him just how He will do it.

One nice thing about universalism is that it really is conducive to that. We no longer need to worry about whether we've come to see just the right theory of the atonement or anything else. We simply can look at Jesus and say, "I believe that God-man will save me in spite of myself." Now, doesn't that sound like what faith in Christ should really mean? Indeed, it sounds like true child-like faith. It no longer depends on us and what we do or learn; our trust is entirely in Christ to eventually straighten us out. It also puts a correct focus on what God is saving us from. He saves us from sin, not the consequences of sin. A universalist believes that sin has consequences. Those consequences are meant to save us from sin. God is out to save us at all costs. Sometimes He must give us tough love and when He does it can get really tough because He really loves us and is really determined to save us from ourselves.

"Yet I know that good is coming to me; that good is always coming, though few have at all times the simplicity and the courage to believe it."
--'Phantastes', by George MacDonald

Sue

Apr 22nd, 2007 - 2:26 PM

Re: Is God blessing the Universalist?

Thank you all for your encouraging words. I realise that I have been over-analysing my own faith, and need to stop trying to rely on myself and my own feelings, but to turn towards Christ and trust in Him alone. This is easier said than done, in light of my current state of mind, but at least I no longer feel that God is completely against me and waiting to throw me into Hell at the earliest opportunity. One thing I do know - if I ever come out of this and recover, I will feel like the most blessed person on this Earth. I want to serve the Lord so much - it's as if I've only just realised what it really means to be a Christian. The love I have received from my Church family has been overwhelming. And you guys as well - I really appreciate the time you've taken to thoughtfully reply to me offering encouragement and hope. God bless you.

Sue

Mike Burke

Apr 22nd, 2007 - 3:46 PM

Re: Is God blessing the Universalist?

It's good to hear from you again Susan, and God isn't "waiting" to throw anyone into hell:

Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? (Ezek. 18:23, KJV.)

And as Moses did lift up the serpent in the wilderness, so it behoveth the Son of Man to be lifted up, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during, for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. (John 3:14-16, Young's Literal Translation.)

And the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord and against you; pray to the Lord, that He may take away the serpents from us. So Moses prayed for the people. And the Lord said to Moses, Make a fiery serpent [of bronze] and set it on a pole; and everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of bronze and put it on a pole, and if a serpent had bitten any man, when he looked to the serpent of bronze [attentively, expectantly, with a steady and absorbing gaze], he lived. (Num. 21:7-9, Amplified Bible.)

And in the fourth watch [between 3:00--6:00 a.m.] of the night, Jesus came to them, walking on the sea. And when the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified and said, It is a ghost! And they screamed out with fright. But instantly He spoke to them, saying, Take courage! I AM! Stop being afraid! And Peter answered Him, Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water. He said, Come! So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water, and he came toward Jesus. But when he perceived and felt the strong wind, he was frightened, and as he began to sink, he cried out, Lord, save me [from death]! Instantly Jesus reached out His hand and caught and held him, saying to him, O you of little faith, why did you doubt? And when they got into the boat, the wind ceased. And those in the boat knelt and worshiped Him, saying, Truly You are the Son of God! (Matt. 14:25-33, Amplified Bible.)

Keep your eyes on Jesus, and God Bless.

Darroll Evans

Apr 26th, 2007 - 6:06 PM

Re: Is God blessing the Universalist?

Luke 6:22-23
22 Blessed are you when men hate you, and when they exclude you, and revile you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of Man's sake.
23 Rejoice in that day and leap for joy! For indeed your reward is great in heaven, for in like manner their fathers did to the prophets.
(NKJ)

I can truthfully say that God has blessed me no matter how you define “blessing.” Men need not listen to us or speak well of our “theology” for us to be blessed. They would not listen to Christ.

I have taught in Churches where they disagreed with my “theology” and still asked me to teach. Many years ago, a Pastor came to my home, disagreed with me, and disagreed all I had to say. And yet, before he left, he invited me to come and teach in his Church.

When I was asked to teach in the Church we now attend, I explained our “theology” to the elder who made the invitation. His response was, “Oh!” I still teach in that Church and in fact he is a member of the class I teach.

If we truly honor Christ, He honors us.

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Author	Comment
Sue Apr 20, 07 - 7:28 AM	Is God blessing the Universalist? As someone who has only recently started to look into the concept of Universalism, I have a question that is troubling me. If Universalism is true, why does God bless Christians who preach otherwise? For example, I have been to Christian festivals, where the Holy Spirit is clearly at work and miraculous healings have taken place. Surely God would not be blessing people who are preaching the wrong gospel? By the same token, as Universalists do you have experience of Gods blessing on you, as surely He would be keen to encourage those who have got it right!
Mike Burke Apr 20th, 2007 - 10:43 AM	Re: Is God blessing the Universalist? Are there no miraculous healings in the Roman Communion? Among Protestants? The Eastern Orthodox? Among Charismatics and Pentecostalists? Are such things dependent on the preacher (his faith, his doctrinal understanding); or are they dependent on God's will, and the faith of the individual who's in need of healing? Should that faith be in the preacher and his doctrines, or in Christ; and how do you understand the following scriptures? And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. (Luke 9:49-50.) And: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matt. 7:22-23.) Email: admin@biblicaluniversalist.com Website: http://www.biblicaluniversalist.com
Mike Burke Apr 21st, 2007 - 12:33 AM	Re: Is God blessing the Universalist? P.S. What do you mean by "wrong Gospel"? The Gospel is that Christ came in the flesh, died for our sins, and rose again. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Cor. 3:11-15.) Email: admin@biblicaluniversalist.com Website: http://www.biblicaluniversalist.com
Andrew Apr 21st, 2007 - 12:51 AM	Re: Is God blessing the Universalist? Mike said: "The Gospel is that Christ came in the flesh, died for our sins, and rose again." That sums it up, I think. If God only blessed those who had their theology all figured out and correct none of us would be blessed. But to answer your question... I am acquainted with a number of universalist christians who are blessed in many ways, but I'm also acquainted with non-universalist christians who are blessed. God meets us where we're at, I think. Hope that helps, Sue. Andrew
Mike Burke Apr 21st, 2007 - 1:04 AM	Re: Is God blessing the Universalist? Thank you Andrew. God Bless. Email: admin@biblicaluniversalist.com Website: http://www.biblicaluniversalist.com
Sue Apr 21st, 2007 - 1:55 AM	Re: Is God blessing the Universalist? Thank you both. I can understand and accept what you are saying. Unfortunately I am just in a bad place in my head at the moment. I've been suffering with depression for the last 8 months, and my faith has taken a real battering. The reason I became interested in Universalism was because I'm frightened that I don't trust Jesus to save me, and I am questioning whether I ever really did. The more I think about it, the harder it becomes to trust at all. I'm convinced that I am not one of God's children, even though thats what I want more than anything. I don't think I really changed for the better after praying the sinner's prayer, so I can't find any evidence for the Holy Spirit being in my life. Part of my depression has also been the fear that God is punishing me and I am going to die unsaved. As you can imagine, my imagination goes wild when thinking about what that might involve. I am sorry to post such a negative message. Please don't think I am completely off my trolley. I can hold a perfectly sane conversation - its just that I am in a complete spiritual mess.
Andrew Apr 21st, 2007 - 7:34 AM	Re: Is God blessing the Universalist? Sue, I absolutely know what you are talking about. There was a time in the not-too-distant past that I was also convinced that I was not a child of God. I was trying so desperately to hang onto God, but I would often read the Bible and find only condemnation. Through some fairly strange circumstances I was led to study Christian universalism. Part of my healing was realizing that God would come after me no matter what. Universalism aside, I can say with all confidence that you are beloved of God, Sue. Don't exhaust yourself questioning your sincerety of heart, and your goodness. We all come before God offering nothing. I might encourage you to simplify your approach to God at this point. Something that helped me even before studying universalism was realizing that I couldn't work, pray, or strive my way to peace. You might just start the day with a simple prayer of asking his presence for the day... Let Him do the rest. I wish there was something more substantive I could say, but I do know where you are coming from. God's blessings on you. Andrew
Mike Burke Apr 21st, 2007 - 1:46 PM	Re: Is God blessing the Universalist? Hi Sue, Consider what you wrote: [Quote] I don't think I really changed for the better after praying the sinner's prayer, so I can't find any evidence for the Holy Spirit being in my life. [unquote] Now consider what Jesus had to say regarding the Holy Spirit: But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me...And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment...(John 15: 26;16:8.) The fact that you're convicted, and know you should be better than you are, could be taken as evidence that the Holy Spirit is in your life. You also said: [Quote] I'm convinced that I am not one of God's children, even though that's what I want more than anything. [unquote] Jesus said: Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. (Matt. 5:6.) And: No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:44.) And: All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (John 6:37.) It's true that he also said that if He were lifted up He would draw all to Him, and I believe that includes those who die unsaved, but that's another subject--your concern seems to be whether God is in your life now, and I believe He is. From your comments, it would seem that you're very well aware of your own sins, and of your need of a Savior, and the sinner's prayer doesn't work overnight. Trusting in Jesus, repenting, and growing is a life-long process. Consider the words of Peter (who lost faith and denied our Lord on one occasion): ...giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 1:5-11.) Also the words of Paul: We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do...I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God - through Jesus Christ our Lord! (Romans 7:14-15, 23-25.) And: For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Eph. 2:10.) I believe God is working in your life now, and that He has prepared good works for you to walk in. Jesus said: I say to you, Ask and keep on asking and it shall be given you; seek and keep on seeking and you shall find; knock and keep on knocking and the door shall be opened to you. For everyone who asks and keeps on asking receives; and he who seeks and keeps on seeking finds; and to him who knocks and keeps on knocking, the door shall be opened. What father among you, if his son asks for a loaf of bread, will give him a stone; or if he asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, evil as you are, know how to give good gifts [gifts that are to their advantage] to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask and continue to ask Him! (Luke 11:9-13, The Amplified Bible.) My advise is to you is to pray, and meditate on the following verse every day. ...He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:6.) God Bless. Email: admin@biblicaluniversalist.com Website: http://www.biblicaluniversalist.com
Ed Smith Apr 22nd, 2007 - 12:54 PM	Re: Is God blessing the Universalist? First of all, I can give you a good example of God blessing those who are wrong; in fact, it is an example of God blessing those who are not properly universalistic. A funny story is told in Acts 10:1-11:18. The punchline is "When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."" The story prior to that tells how God blessed the church tremendously with huge growth and wonderful miraculous signs. However, they not only lacked the doctrine of universalism at that time, but didn't even believe God would save anyone other than Jews. Peter himself had to be convinced by means of an elaborate vision to even go and share the gospel with them. When he returned, his associates were angry with him for even visiting Gentiles. This is why after he told his whole story it says "they quieted down." Not only was this a severe lack of universalism, but seemed to be a kind of racism. However, their hearts were focused on Christ and He eventually dealt with them about it when it was time for them to bring the gospel to the Gentiles. If, in an age to come, we are to take part in God bringing His salvation to those we don't think can be saved (those who died without Christ), then it will be necessary for God to convince all believers that He intends to save the dead. There are more important things than universalism. Those who are pointing people to Christ are servants of God and will often be blessed as such. In summary, I'd like to emphasize that God is concerned about the character of our hearts rather than the content of our brains. Otherwise, I agree with the others here and think you just need to relax. Salvation involves trusting Jesus the person to save you, not trusting in whether you've managed to create just the right thoughts, feelings, and beliefs in your own mind. I don't think it is important that we understand just how Jesus saves us or just what has to happen in us for us to experience that salvation. What is important is that we look to the person of Christ to save us and leave it to Him just how He will do it. One nice thing about universalism is that it really is conducive to that. We no longer need to worry about whether we've come to see just the right theory of the atonement or anything else. We simply can look at Jesus and say, "I believe that God-man will save me in spite of myself." Now, doesn't that sound like what faith in Christ should really mean? Indeed, it sounds like true child-like faith. It no longer depends on us and what we do or learn; our trust is entirely in Christ to eventually straighten us out. It also puts a correct focus on what God is saving us from. He saves us from sin, not the consequences of sin. A universalist believes that sin has consequences. Those consequences are meant to save us from sin. God is out to save us at all costs. Sometimes He must give us tough love and when He does it can get really tough because He really loves us and is really determined to save us from ourselves. "Yet I know that good is coming to me; that good is always coming, though few have at all times the simplicity and the courage to believe it." --'Phantastes', by George MacDonald Email: packcover@hotmail.com
Sue Apr 22nd, 2007 - 2:26 PM	Re: Is God blessing the Universalist? Thank you all for your encouraging words. I realise that I have been over-analysing my own faith, and need to stop trying to rely on myself and my own feelings, but to turn towards Christ and trust in Him alone. This is easier said than done, in light of my current state of mind, but at least I no longer feel that God is completely against me and waiting to throw me into Hell at the earliest opportunity. One thing I do know - if I ever come out of this and recover, I will feel like the most blessed person on this Earth. I want to serve the Lord so much - it's as if I've only just realised what it really means to be a Christian. The love I have received from my Church family has been overwhelming. And you guys as well - I really appreciate the time you've taken to thoughtfully reply to me offering encouragement and hope. God bless you. Sue
Mike Burke Apr 22nd, 2007 - 3:46 PM	Re: Is God blessing the Universalist? It's good to hear from you again Susan, and God isn't "waiting" to throw anyone into hell: Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? (Ezek. 18:23, KJV.) And as Moses did lift up the serpent in the wilderness, so it behoveth the Son of Man to be lifted up, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during, for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. (John 3:14-16, Young's Literal Translation.) And the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord and against you; pray to the Lord, that He may take away the serpents from us. So Moses prayed for the people. And the Lord said to Moses, Make a fiery serpent [of bronze] and set it on a pole; and everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of bronze and put it on a pole, and if a serpent had bitten any man, when he looked to the serpent of bronze [attentively, expectantly, with a steady and absorbing gaze], he lived. (Num. 21:7-9, Amplified Bible.) And in the fourth watch [between 3:00--6:00 a.m.] of the night, Jesus came to them, walking on the sea. And when the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified and said, It is a ghost! And they screamed out with fright. But instantly He spoke to them, saying, Take courage! I AM! Stop being afraid! And Peter answered Him, Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water. He said, Come! So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water, and he came toward Jesus. But when he perceived and felt the strong wind, he was frightened, and as he began to sink, he cried out, Lord, save me [from death]! Instantly Jesus reached out His hand and caught and held him, saying to him, O you of little faith, why did you doubt? And when they got into the boat, the wind ceased. And those in the boat knelt and worshiped Him, saying, Truly You are the Son of God! (Matt. 14:25-33, Amplified Bible.) Keep your eyes on Jesus, and God Bless. Email: admin@biblicalUniversalist.com Website: http://www.biblicaluniversalist.com
Darroll Evans Apr 26th, 2007 - 6:06 PM	Re: Is God blessing the Universalist? Luke 6:22-23 22 Blessed are you when men hate you, and when they exclude you, and revile you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of Man's sake. 23 Rejoice in that day and leap for joy! For indeed your reward is great in heaven, for in like manner their fathers did to the prophets. (NKJ) I can truthfully say that God has blessed me no matter how you define “blessing.” Men need not listen to us or speak well of our “theology” for us to be blessed. They would not listen to Christ. I have taught in Churches where they disagreed with my “theology” and still asked me to teach. Many years ago, a Pastor came to my home, disagreed with me, and disagreed all I had to say. And yet, before he left, he invited me to come and teach in his Church. When I was asked to teach in the Church we now attend, I explained our “theology” to the elder who made the invitation. His response was, “Oh!” I still teach in that Church and in fact he is a member of the class I teach. If we truly honor Christ, He honors us. Email: studycomments@yahoo.com Website: http://www.greenwood.net/~cdevans