Biblical Universalist Discussion Forum
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| Viewing Page 1 of 1 (Total Posts: 7) |
| Author | Comment |
Pablo
Jan 4, 07 - 10:50 PM |
Eternal Life vs. Eternal Torment; question from a beginner
Hello, I see that there are some folks here who have been studying universalism for quite some time, I think some here could point me in the right direction for further study. Please, using layman's language and no theological terms, but only suggesting the crux of the distinction, how can UR state that aion and aionian have limited qualities when they reference punishment but unlimited qualities when they reference the unending nature of God? Even more simply, how can these words make punishment limited but still hold out hope that life in Christ is never-ending? I hope someone can suggest the reasons in just a sentence or two. Hemingway type sentences are best. I don't believe the concept is simple but I'm looking for a simple place to start. Thanks and God Bless, Pedro |
Mike Burke
 Jan 5th, 2007 - 6:35 AM |
Re: Eternal Life vs. Eternal Torment; question from a beginner
The literal meaning of aionian/aionios is "of ages." The specific meaning (in a given context) would depend on how many ages are in view (there is a difference between a "big" cat, and a "big" mountain.) As to the promise of unending life, see 1 Cor. 15:20-28 (and the entire chapter.) God Bless. |
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Pablo
Jan 8th, 2007 - 8:55 PM |
Re: Eternal Life vs. Eternal Torment; question from a beginner
Thanks Mike. |
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Mike Burke
Jan 9th, 2007 - 3:45 PM |
Re: Eternal Life vs. Eternal Torment; question from a beginner
You're welcome Pablo. Thanks for dropping in. God Bless. |
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martincisneros
Jan 18th, 2007 - 3:21 PM |
Re: Eternal Life vs. Eternal Torment; question from a beginner
Hi Pablo, First of all, the Greek word "aion" uniformly means an age when you're talking about any Greek text from 2000 years ago - or actually when talking about anything from the 5th century B.C. to the 5th century A.D. It's one of those issues of interpretation where you were indicating that the word aion is used of God and necessarily means eternal because God is eternal. Rather, what I believe that we have here with a passage in Romans 16 and somewhere in Revelation talking about Christ working through the ages of the ages is that God is the God of the ages that He's working through when you're considering the Romans 16 passage. It's an entirely different statement and entirely different greek words involved than when we're reading of the Immortal God in 1Timothy 6. As far as age-lasting life or age-lasting punishment, both of those states are temporary states because they predate the time when God is all in all in 1Corinthians 15:28. The life of the ages or the age-abiding life that belongs to believers at the time of that judgment is a different type of life from what we've received when we've embraced the Lordship of Jesus Christ. The Matthew 25 passage is a judgment of both the sheep and the goats. This passage isn't talking about those who've been born again or those who haven't been. It's talking about a particular dynamic that will be working in them for that coming age - life or punishment. The sheep were already partakers of the divine nature when they embraced the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the realities of the New Covenant. At this time described in Matthew 25 they are receiving life upon life that will fit them for that age or ages when they'll be working together with their Head for the wholeness and recovery of all that's still not right. Jesus Christ called the knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ age-abiding life in John chapter 17. As we can progressively know the Lord better and better, more and more intimately, so we can walk in more and more "life" which is what that passage is talking about. It's another tier of life, if that makes any sense. There's nothing in any of the passages that speak, in the Greek text, of punishment that'll never know a consummation. God's gathering together all things together into one in Christ of things in the heavens and in the earth, according to Ephesians 1. |
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Mike Burke
Jan 23rd, 2007 - 9:48 PM |
Re: Eternal Life vs. Eternal Torment; question from a beginner
[quote] First of all, the Greek word "aion" uniformly means an age...God is the God of the ages that He's working through [unquote] I'm afraid the evidence indicates that "aionian" is a little more flexible than that. It certainly cannot mean forever in passages like Romans 16:25-- Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for times aionian. But we must also take passages like Heb. 9:14 into account. How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the aionian Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! Do we take this to mean the spirit of the age? How did Paul characterize this age? ...who did give himself for our sins, that he might deliver us out of the present evil age... (Gal 1:4, Young's Literal translation.) How could the Spirit that inspired and strengthened Jesus be said to characterize a wicked age (aion)? Perhaps it could be said to characterize the age to come, but wouldn't that be equally true of the ages that follow? I'm afraid I must agree with Dean Farrar, in whose opinion aionian had a primary sense of "pertaining to an aeon, and therefore 'indefinite,' since an aeon may be either long or short," and a secondary sense of "spiritual,' 'pertaining to the unseen world,' 'an attribute of that which is above and beyond time'--an attribute expressive not of duration but of quality." [quote] As far as age-lasting life or age-lasting punishment, both of those states are temporary states because they predate the time when God is all in all in 1Corinthians 15:28. [unquote] I agree with you here Martin (at least concerning aionian punishment.) God Bless. |
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Maribel
Jun 23rd, 2007 - 9:27 PM |
Re: Eternal Life vs. Eternal Torment; question from a beginner
When I believed in endless hell, I felt very uncomfortable, I have a weak stomach and nearly threw up, and I also felt fear and torment. Now I understand God as a parent and disciplines us all for our own good because he made us all, just like a child causes trouble and mischief and later gets chastened by their parents. I wish we were all in the new reality now, I'm sick of this evil age. Please pray for all and to hasten the day of God Almighty. |
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